Disclaimer






"I am a BLOGGER NOT an expert. This is a BLOG not a 'go-to' website for official information. I represent no one's view save my own. I have neither legal nor financial training, nor do I have anything to do with the real estate industry. My understanding of the Collective Sale Process is from a layman's position only. My calculations, computations and tables are homespun and may contain errors. Please note that nothing in this blog constitutes any legal or financial advice to anyone reading it. You should refer to your lawyer, CSC or financial adviser for expert advice before making any decision. This disclaimer is applicable to every post and comment on the blog. Read at your own risk."
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There is one thing worse than an Enbloc ----- and that is an Enbloc done badly. Since the majority have the necessary mandate to sell, then they owe it to all SPs to make a success of it. Minority SPs can only watch and wait, if they sell then lets pray it's at a price we can move on with, if they don't sell, then we are happy to stay for a few more years.

SHOULD TC GO EN BLOC AGAIN?

Ok, I will give you gung-ho guys a special post on the blog to air your views. I will even put it on the main top bar for easy access.

Please mind your language. I will instantly trash any comment with expletives or named persons. Because this is my blog, not a public forum, I still hold the right of censure.



Anything under $1.7 million is UNDERSELLING 
YOU WILL NEVER AGAIN BE ABLE TO AFFORD A 1700 SQFT PRIVATE APARTMENT
TC HAS 2 MILLION SQ FT OF SALABLE STRATA AREA.
EN BLOC IS A DESTRUCTIVE FORCE  WHEN UNLEASHED - 
DO NOT START ONE JUST TO TEST THE WATERS OR DESTABILIZE THE ESTATE.

TAMPINES COURTERS DESERVE AT LEAST 5 YEARS OF PEACE & QUIET BEFORE CHURNING THE WATERS AGAIN

THE EN BLOC MARKET WILL NEVER DISAPPEAR

GOOD REDEVELOPMENT SITES IN MATURE ESTATES ARE
GETTING RARER BY THE YEAR

TAMPINES COURT:
- has massive common property
- has enormous apartments
- has ample parking lots
- is very windy
- has large open balconies

- has low monthy maintenance fees
- even lower than unprivatised HUDCs (if car parking included)

- is walking distance to 2 MRT stations
- is close to Tampines Shopping belt
- has a Fairprice supermarket next door
- easy access to PIE/ECP

- foodcourts galore in the area
- bus stop right outside the estate
- is close to a major public hospital
- is six minutes from the Airport
- is close to the Expo
- is walking distance to the 'Shenton Way' of the East
Primary, Secondary, Polytechic and Junior Colleges nearby
United Overseas College
Singapore's 4th University 

Downgrading is NOT ACCEPTABLE



89 comments:

  1. Anonymous05 June, 2010

    i suggest you get a few reputable Ma to make a proposal to you. They will propose a selling price and ask them to justify the amount. Most reputable MAs have certified valuers in their team and should provide a good feel for the value for TC.

    This is a good start.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Anonymous06 June, 2010

    Could some kind soul educate us on how to calculate the value of TC.Or get an expert to do so.
    Some say at least 1.2 million and I thought I saw(maybe dreaming) in this blog 1.3 to 1.7 million.
    If the above prices is doable then should go en-bloc because I remember the adiacent executive flats($600k now) were higher in prices than TC at one time and now TC(as speculated) is at least double the price.
    What a windfall right?

    ReplyDelete
  3. Anonymous06 June, 2010

    i suggest you call the likes of savils/credo/etc ans ask them for a proposal. If they are keen, it will be foc. They will propose the selling price, sugested apportionment, etc.

    from the interest level, you can have arough guage on the readiness of TC for another enbloc attempt.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Anonymous07 June, 2010

    Based on the recent prices paid by developer for residential sites near TC - $421ppr for Tampines Ave 1 site in Mar 10 and $523ppr for Simei site in May 10, present worth of TC land should be between these numbers as TC location is better than the Tampines Ave 1 site but not as good as the Simei site which is opposite the mrt. The 1.2 million figure is definitely not unrealistic. Why then are TC owners selling their units now at prices between $750K to $800K? Don't they know that if they can hold until enbloc, they can get much more?

    ReplyDelete
  5. Anonymous07 June, 2010

    enbloc takes a longer time, no guarantee, upfront cost, more hassle, many uninformed objectors etc...

    ReplyDelete
  6. Anonymous08 June, 2010

    Perhaps we can form an informal "Pre-enbloc Team" to:

    1. objectively educate owners on the present worth of TC land periodically (could be every 3-6 months)

    2. highlight the pros and cons of TC enbloc

    3. gauge the overall interest and readiness of owners for enbloc

    4. come up with plans to ensure TC is enbloc at the right time - sell when market is hot and prices are unbelievably high

    5. etc, etc - owners are free to give suggestions

    All TC owners must be aware that by law, our leasehold land goes back to the government in about 75 years time, and we would get nothing by then. This do not mean we must to go for enbloc now, as the worth of our land may be much higher in ten years time. We do need to be good steward to our TC asset and get it sold collectively at the best price and the right time.

    TC Owner

    ReplyDelete
  7. Anonymous08 June, 2010

    in 10 years time, owners will think that they will fetch a better price in another 10 years...and on and on and on...

    ReplyDelete
  8. Anonymous09 June, 2010

    Just went into your blog site and its interesting to see how naives one is when talking about en bloc and or value of their asset! Anyway sharing with you some approach to compute the 4 shares value that each of us own if the estate go for another round collectively.

    On the surface each of the 560 units represented 4 share values of the estate. However if ever the estate get sold collectively the 4 share values not only represent total value of the unit itself but the whole estate (Strata Title) instead.

    With these we hypothesized together with land area of 65,232 m2 and current plot ratio of 2.8 x, let’s compute a value for your argument in your blog.

    Firstly value per sq. meter can be computed from the last 3 April transactions in the estate as follows: $730k, $780k and $800k respectively, making it, last moving average value of $770k against 170 m2, per m2 represent $4,530.

    Next the estate land area of 65,232 m2 multiply by 2.8 plot ratio equal 182,649.6 m2. Have it divided by 560 units, each unit owns 326.16 m2. Now multiply it with $4,530, the final estimated price for 4 share values is $1,477,504.80 as simple as that. However one must remember that the final number usually affected by the per sq. meter price moving average, with it, hope those interested with the next round finally understand.

    Have fun blogging!

    ReplyDelete
  9. As suggested by MP Ellen Lee during LTSA 2010 parliamentary debate on 18 May and as endorsed by Law Minister who said that estates should require it where applicable, Subsidiary Proprietors should ask for Re-Affirmation by Majority Consenters prior to the Sale Com signing a Sale & Purchase Agreement with the Developer-buyer.

    First, Re-Affirmation allows Majority Consenters to make the ultimate decision to sell if that final offer still makes economic sense. Eg, by collecting the en bloc sale proceeds about 6-9 months from the date of Re-Affirmation, will it enable you to buy a NEW replacement unit in the SAME neighbourbood?
    [NOTE: It has to be a NEW replacement unit unless you are prepared to take the risk of being an En Bloc Refugee by buying an old condo that may also go en bloc. Also, you are now unlocking the land value of the entire plot for the building of NEW units and NOT selling a 30-year old unit]

    That will the acid test as to whether the estate is being sold at close to Residual Land Value. If the requisite level of Majority Consent is NOT hit during Re-Affirmation (and it need not even be same number of CSA signatories), then the majority has spoken and there is no reason for Sale Com to die-die-must-sell.

    Seccond, Re-Affirmation unloads the burden from Sale Com members who do not have to worry if they have executed their duty of care as "agents". If they have failed in their duty, these volunteers risk being sued by other Owners.

    Talking about naivety, using the moving average of recent Tampines Court sale transactions takes the cake! Do you want coffee to go with it? Black or white?
    June 9, 2010 11:40 AM

    ReplyDelete
  10. Anonymous09 June, 2010

    Did someone mention in another thread that TC is not much different from the nearby HDB? perhaps some owners are considering HDB as replacement.

    Unfortunately, TC cannot be compared with a full condo with facilities like WW and WK. comparing TC with HDB does not sound quite right too... a replacement unit somewhere in between would be fair....hmmm...how to find such units?

    so... no enbloc for TC for sometime...

    ReplyDelete
  11. Anonymous09 June, 2010

    There is nothing comparable with TC in the vicinity. No condoos w/o pool and tennis court. Take the upgrade to WW and WK as an upgrade and sacrifice a little on the SP.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Anonymous12 June, 2010

    TC is really a HDB with fences around our blocks. No facility and not exactly very well kept. It's a condo simply because its privatised. nothing much.

    Residents should really think and not be swayed by agents or money. Consider what they really want before commiting to it. If they want space, then buying a 1700sqf condo for $1.2 is really not feasible. But if a 900sqf HDB and some spare cash after en bloc is good enough, then it might be really workable for some residents.

    Anyhow, do think about what you want before commiting. The amount that your unit will be en bloc for its just a number. It's what you want that matter most.

    P.S. I'm a TCer.

    ReplyDelete
  13. The earlier posts on valuation for each unit at abt 1.478m does not factor in the deductions for DC and top-up to 99yrs.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Sellers do not pay the DP and DC, the developer does.

    In TC it is around $110 million and is factored in by the developer when doing his sums. Do not be fooled by marketing agents into thinking this sum is absorbed by the the seller.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anonymous13 June, 2010

    while the seller is not absorbed by the seller, the developer will take the DC charges and lease top-up into consideration when valuing the land. If DC goes up, it will affect the selling price of TC. Developer look at the total cost, not only the selling price.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Anonymous16 June, 2010

    TC does not have facilities like other condo, likewise residents does not have to pay the >$350 for monthly maintenance that others do.
    When comparing facilities you need to look at the costs too to use the facilities.
    Don't worry about the total cost the Developer has to pay. If they want the land, they will pay for it and then as if with some magic, buyers of the new development will buy at the price developers sell.
    Look at the recent en-bloc sales; the number of new units increases, the dollar per sqft of new development increases by > 2X. Since when do sellers need to worry about the cost Developers has to pay???
    It is like when COV of HDB resale goes up, there are still buyers out there... These HDB people are clever, no rush, there's always some one with money out there.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Anonymous17 June, 2010

    from what you say abouts sellers buying at whatever price the develop set, then a bubble is forming and that is why the govt is increasing land sales and anti-speculation measures. One day, the bubble will burst.

    The fact is that developers knows the market well. If the price is not right, they will not bid aggressively. Eg., laguna park, green lodge were unsuccessful enblocs

    Yes, TC does not have facilities and does not have to pay higher maintenance. However, this make TC less attractive to buyers. Do you see any new condos in the market w/o facilities?

    ReplyDelete
  18. TC has the most sought after facility of them all - space.

    I run a website for a property agent friend - and what passes for facilities these days is laughable.
    eg, ridiculous lap pools 22m long,
    foot reflexology paths,
    grand entrance etc.

    Looking at the estate laypouts the blocks are squeezed very tightly and the floor plans are full of window boxes and bay-windows (total space wasters). The new estates are not value for money and you would have to be some kind of fool to pay $1 million + for a 800sqft glass box.

    If they didn't try and puff them up with fake facilities they would be worse than HDB - value wise.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous17 June, 2010

    The selling point of a condo is facility people do not mind the space is the surrounding area which beautiful scape, full glass panel, bay windows and etc that not space waste.So you saying people are a fool to paid premium for space.Why TC is not getting a premium where we got so much space?

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anonymous17 June, 2010

    well, the preference of the buyers speaks for themselves... the amount they pay for the unit.

    Which condo is the lowest in terms of psf in Tampines?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Discerning buyers buy Tampines Court. They can see the potential in a large unit and prefer this to newer, smaller and more expensive options. 112+ sold units in 2 years is quite an achievement, so, if 'the preference of buyers speaks for themselves' then over 112 owners have spoken with a resounding YES to TC.

    If there were no interest in the estate, units would not move.

    The 20% of new owners who have bought into TC since 2008, know full well that it does not come with a swimming pool or tennis court. Indeed, that may have been a plus factor in their decision making. After all, who wants to pay for the upkeep of an expensive facility that they may never use or use sparingly?

    My new neighbour next door bought 3 months ago and was attracted by the size, facing and privacy of the unit. He is now in the middle of renovation and has, as far as I can see, stripped the place from top to bottom. It will be beautiful when it is finished.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Anonymous17 June, 2010

    Sorry,dont think they are discerning buyers.Its because the ones available is out of their reach.It is the cheaper option.
    It is the case 'if no fish prawn also can'.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Anonymous17 June, 2010

    Dahalia park condo around 1200sq ft only looking at 800k plus 999 yrs, less then 10yrs old Condo

    ReplyDelete
  24. First you said "the buyers' preference speaks for itself" - and I pointed out to you that if that is the case, then 112+ new owners speaks volumes about the desirability of TC.

    Then you imply that somehow these owners must have chosen prawns over fish, that their budgets did not stretch as far as a new unit in a new estate. TC must therefore be their reluctant second choice.

    Well, by that logic, TC is my second choice, too. I would much prefer to live in a double story bungalow in Bukit Timah, but alas I cannot afford to do so.

    People decide what their needs are and how best to satisfy them within a certain budget. TC satisfies those that require large units at a reasonable price. I am sure the new owners are happy with their purchases.

    It is the old owners (like yourself) who constantly moan about TC yet strangely resist the urge to sell up and leave and buy a snazzy cubbyhole in a new estate with micro-facilities.
    $800k can buy you a 1 bedroom in any of the new 99yr launches.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Anonymous18 June, 2010

    The price of tc is languishing. Why? simply because it is not attractive to buyers.

    112 new owners means desirable? It only means that 112+ owners after experiencing TC wants out.

    Look at he recent enbloc attemt... 80% want out at a low price.

    the action of owners speaks for themselves...

    ReplyDelete
  26. Anonymous18 June, 2010

    Our HDB neighbouring block beside the round market is getting new lifts for the low rise walk up units. You can see the work being done as you pass through the block. How I wish my walk up unit in TC would have lifts too, like my HDB neighbor. What good is space when we have no lifts. In this respect, I think TC is worst than HDB. Either get the estate enbloc or upgrade the estate and the first priority should be lifts for low rise. Don't ask me to sell now and buy one with lift cos I love my apartment just as much as you love yours but I am getting older and my knees are getting weaker!!!

    ReplyDelete
  27. Anonymous18 June, 2010

    From URA: TAMPINES COURT $818,000 1,701 481psf Jun-10.

    Another new record for TC within 2 months (Apr o Jun 2010). $900K is achievable in 8 months' time.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Anonymous19 June, 2010

    Again, let me repeat. Wise not to be in hurry to sell, the en-bloc price should be set what sellers want. Not what developers want.
    When developers need the land and TC is a great location - great amenities and 2 MRT stations within walking distance; they will pay the price. Value of en-bloc is not set by swimming pools or lack of it. All will be demolished.
    Current land sales may slow sales of new condos but not the lower the price (check the news), if there is any price drop, it will be insignificant. Prices will rise again in land scarce Singapore.
    Developers will delay launches of new developments and timed it to earn the bigger profit. When their land bank gets dry they will top it up with either from gov land sales or en-bloc.
    Having said that, I hope TC will NOT go en-bloc. It has fantastic view (mine has), windy, large floor area, nice friendly neighbours, peaceful, serene... can't see what opposite block's folks are doing (well spaced). - Where to find?

    ReplyDelete
  29. Anonymous23 June, 2010

    I am a new owner of TC and I go for Enbloc if it's above 1.2M. There is an old saying, human being move for better and trees move for dead.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Anonymous06 July, 2010

    I think $1.2 million is too conservative. I will not sell.

    You can hardly buy anything with 1.2

    It is not worth the hassle of shifting house just for that small gain. I might as well stay put

    ReplyDelete
  31. Anonymous11 July, 2010

    If you would not sell at 1.2 million, would you consider buying now? Walk-up advertised for 760K, asking price only, so can get cheaper! When enbloc at your price, surely you can buy something since you would gain more than those with just one unit. If you have to sell or is forced to sell, the enbloc premium to current resale price IS NOT conservative.

    ReplyDelete
  32. 1 for 1 exchange to the same size and if not of the same size at cost x 10% , then the difference in sqf to be multiplied by the cost per sq foot and given to the owner. choice of apartments to be fair should be balloted as all would want the best but that will really be impossible. this can be one of the choices for those who intend staying at tc area.

    ReplyDelete
  33. The low blocks i think if they need lifts then they should collectively collect and have it but none of the high rise will agree to pay. people are really cash strapped these days and that is a fact. No disrespect meant to anyone. any money or for tahat matter any upgrades at this time is really not worth lookin into. we have gone without shelter and gym etc for since genesis of tc so lets leave it as such and enjoy the greenery till someone offers us an excellent deal for the land.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Well, there has been a large turnover of units and 133 have changed hands since Aug 2008.

    i believe the new owners do not have the same mentality as the old owners and hopefully will want to see the estate go forward and not stay in a rut waiting for the en bloc ship to come in.

    ReplyDelete
  35. How many of these 133 new owners actually stay in TC but rent them out? I believe the majority rent them out and wait for enbloc.

    ReplyDelete
  36. is tc in a rut? thought it was well maintained.

    ReplyDelete
  37. No idea but there has been a huge number of major renovations and people don't renovate to rent out. My immediate new neighbour did a total make over job on his unit and it is just beautiful. They moved in 2 weeks ago.
    t
    TC in a rut? NO! It is well maintained and improving all the time!

    ReplyDelete
  38. Glad to know tc is improving :) you in the MC? What can we look forward to?

    ReplyDelete
  39. Time not good for Developers to buy any land with new MND policies.
    With 22,000 new homes next year, $8000-$10,000 income folks can purchase DBSS on government land.
    Now it is difficult to use HDB flats for investment. New rules for concurrent home loans...
    With all of the new rules, en-bloc should also cool. Which is a good side-effect. This will reduce the number of displaced en-bloc people from the very hot resale market and private property market.
    I can go ahead to renovate my home in TC :), yeah!

    ReplyDelete
  40. Since with the cooling of property market and developers would now keep away from acquiring land - especially from en-bloc (which is time consuming and more expensive than government land) - we in TC should give serious thoughts to spruce up the estate.

    ReplyDelete
  41. If any one tries start en-bloc of TC now, it will either fail or not get the desired value, it might be even be lower than what you can sell individually.
    The recent slew of government housing policy is to cool the market. The revised upward DC rates is another way to slow the en-bloc. The government has enough housing woes as it is now and does not need additional en-bloc families looking for resale HDB (these days en-bloc people downgrade) or rentals.
    Housing experts commented that developers will slow down launches of their new developments in a wait-and-see where all this is heading. (See news)
    But how long can they hold? - They need to sell to make money. Experts estimates that with all previous land purchases and constructions, homes will be ready in 2011 and 2012 - that's when the price will drop - increased in supply because 'investors' will look to sell before 'TOP' in order to avoid more bank payments.
    If en-bloc starts now, the tender time will be about the same depress period next year or 2012.
    If you are looking to sell your unit, you may still get good price instead of waiting for en-bloc. People should look for TC instead of HDB resale - too much restrictions.
    Previous en-bloc $695K, now per unit is about $800K??? der.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Developers are not stupid. Neither are owners. Each will do his/her own calculation. Ultimately, if the price is right, the sale will go through. Why allow the estate to sink deeper into disrepute given the current unfavourable physical estate condition. Human beings are basically self-centred, so stop the bickering and stick just to the facts and deal with market realities, which no one can claim honestly to have heavenly insight. We do have a legal framework to resolve the pro and anti enbloc parties, so lets just do that in a civil manner.

    ReplyDelete
  43. TC is only about 25 years old. Owners should plan to live happily or collect rent happily for another 10 to 15 years before thinking about enbloc. Price would be much higher then. Enbloc now difficult to get through. Unlikely to get 80% even with minimum 1.2 million price tag.

    ReplyDelete
  44. i am an outsider. Is tc in good condition or in an unfavourable condition. I am getting conflicting info here.

    ReplyDelete
  45. The estate is in good condition. I took photos recently and put them on the gallery. You can also access the e-newsletter at

    www. tampinescourt.org

    The pro-enblocers always say the estate is old etc, and if they get on the MC then they make sure the estate deteriorates to push people into signing.

    At the moment, the MC is peopled by reasonable owners who believe in upkeeping TC and do all that is possible to improve the living environment for all.

    We have undergone recent cyclical repainting and repair.

    ReplyDelete
  46. At $1.5m per unit for enbloc, we are effectively selling to a developer at $420 per sq ft/plot ratio. 2.8pr x 702,000sf x $1.5m divided by 560 units. This is reasonable as surrounding Govt lands were sold recently at about this price. Only worry abt the recent hike for DC.

    ReplyDelete
  47. DC's problem will get worse as the age of TC drags on. It will weigh heavy on the attractiveness of the site. looks like a no-win situation.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Looking at what's happening, I'll keep my unit. At $1.5m it is not enough for me to buy a replacement unit and because mass market is taking a hit, and with looming over supply in 2011 and 2012, developers will not want it.
    I am very happy living here with great neighbours and great space, low monthly maintenance, such a place where to find?

    ReplyDelete
  49. I would let go at $1.5m. regardless of condition, old is old, no matter how much paint you splat on the building or renovation you do.

    ReplyDelete
  50. A friend's car was badly damaged in accident. Instead of scrapping it, he got it fixed and sold it. Got more money from the sale than to scrap it including the costs of repair!
    This is because the car looks new after repair, he took his time to sell, found the right buyer for the car.
    When TC looks good, residents will be under no pressure to sell. Buyers / developers will have to pay / bid higher. Pure economic basics.
    I know of home sellers who paid under $1000 for contractors to touch up their home, just to get more $ COV in the sale. Basic sales gimmick that works.
    When your place looks good, take the time to sell, but when you are desperate, any amount will do.

    ReplyDelete
  51. 1.5M i too will let go..

    ReplyDelete
  52. if 1.5m i will let go too

    ReplyDelete
  53. I want to be able to buy an equivalent place with same size when I get the $ at the end of the long en-bloc process.
    Anyone knows how much it'll take to have a home this size in 2011/2012 and beyond? Would $1.5M be enough?
    If not, I'll fight it.

    ReplyDelete
  54. how many people here really do their sums carefully, including recent changes to dc, and looking at how much developers can sell tc with new plot ratio. Owners can ask for $xx million or the sky, but do your math how much a developer can make before asking. I am not pro-enbloc. But I am pro maximising price difference between enbloc price and replacement unit.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Exactly!
    And the only way is to counter the property agent lies with facts. Time to dig out the figures and do some number crunching.

    ReplyDelete
  56. I can share my computations, but i don't like to do that for lazy people. Also, the assumption is what you think developer can sell a unit for post enbloc - 800psf? 1000 psf? or 1200psf? these assumptions change the enbloc price substantially. Also, the DC/top up is an estimate you need to assume based on increases since failed enbloc. But the data is all here on this website.

    ReplyDelete
  57. What is a replacement unit for TC? TC is sort of an in-between HDB and Private. Not really a typical condo as it does not have facilities and yet do not enjoy the subsidies provided for HDB apts like upgrading, etc.

    Owners need to discern what is their expectation if an enbloc does go thru. HDB as a replacement is a small downgrade and a condo with facilities is a slight upgrade. Owners need to consider their options carefully.

    Saying that $1.2m is not a replacement cost for a 1,700sqft apt in TC is not exactly justified. There is exactly no equivalent replacement for TC. It is either small upward ot downward move.

    Owners need to set the correct expectation.

    ReplyDelete
  58. This is typical. It does not matter what condition the estate or your unit is in. It does not matter whether there are facilities or not. These DO NOT FACTOR into the price of an en bloc.

    The Buyer will redevelop the estate and the correct replacement cost will be a replacement for your unit on the same land as before (or cash equivalent). You do NOT look at old estates, you do NOT look at HDB, you look at your home patch and calculate what is is really worth.

    I am presently doing just that for ex-HUDCs that have been en blocked. The owners were sold a load of lies and the developer is reaping the profits far greater than the 20% they claim to make.

    Remember the term 'unleashing the land potential"? It's not for the developer only.

    ReplyDelete
  59. market always move, what was promised at the start of enbloc or even in the process does not necessary equate to actual selling price when it is launch a couple of years down the road.

    Developers take risk and I can think of some that forfeited their downpayment during the downturn. Remeber Bravo? it works both ways.

    The key point is whether you can purchase another property of your own liking after the enbloc. Some like to upgrade, some downgrade. Some like the extra cash.

    It is the 80% that decide. The maths help but in the end, 80% will decide.

    n

    ReplyDelete
  60. The market moves in cycles - and with a population target of 6.5 million with 2 million made up of 'overseas talent' locked out of the HDB market... what do YOU think is going to happen to mass market section??? It doesn't take an Einstein to know that mass market properties will be the hunting ground for PRs and new arrivals.

    Bravo was a small time developer which bit off more than it could chew.. it didn't even get past the STB. Only the big boys can take on the likes of TC.

    Math helps only?

    Math is everything! It's people who can't do math and have to rely on 'expert advice' that are dangerous to have on the SC.

    ReplyDelete
  61. yes agree, market move in cycles, sometime you win, sometime you lose.

    The purchaser of Farrer Court will have problems selling their 1,500 units. With the cooling measure, they have a headache.

    Even big boys make mistakes.

    ReplyDelete
  62. You have only words. I can counter with facts.

    Farrer Court is in the process of being torn down and I will make you eat your words when the new Launch is out :))

    I am currently following a number of en blocked estates/new launch combos, and I can safely say every one of them is making a killing for the developer-buyer.

    Would you like to choose one?

    Maybe I will out up a few more ...

    ReplyDelete
  63. my point is that the propery pave been going upppp. It is a no brainer that they will make a killing. The property market have been going upppp.

    I have made a killing too.

    Tell me someone who have bought property 3 years ago and not made money.

    Developer is no different from property investers. In fact, I know of people who flip property and they are even better off than the developers.

    But if the market go south, developers will suffer too...

    It's part of the cycle, so your math is just telling what everyone already know.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Haven't you heard of land banking? The developer and the buyer are two different kettles of fish. I challenge you to show me a single en blocked estate with a new launch that is doing poorly. There are none. The developer will hold onto the land and rent out the units until the market is ripe for development (think Leedon heights, Spanish Village) or simply just delay (Farrar Court).
    Developers never lose and owners should not factor in a developer's 'risk' when setting their RP - because they can time their redevelopment to suit themselves.

    So you are a flipper/agent - a quick buck merchant, it shows.

    End of this thread.

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  65. Can someone advise me, heard rumours signatures are being collected for en bloc in TC .is it ture

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  66. We are talking about enbloc after enbloc . why not seriously consider the following . if majority wants enbloc , we go for enbloc if not at least do the facilities to enhance the outlook of TC .

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  67. As I read some posts, I cannot help but think that some of these people works for the Developers. Or why do they worry how much the Developer's profit will be?
    Or why do they worry if the Developers will suffer?
    Maybe these are charity workers who prefers to get less so that developers will not suffer???
    Since when the suffering of a developer becomes a 'worry' for the seller???
    LOL!!!
    If a developer reads the comments he'll love them to death! And laugh all the way to the bank!
    Wake up! Read the newspaper!
    The Developers can hold back developments, re-market the sales to a time favorable to them.

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  68. I wouldn't entrust any sales to a bunch of people who worries how much Developers would suffer! Would you?
    I would seriously consider only if the sales committee are made up of people who cares for the rights and profits of owners, not developers, get it?
    I rather trust the residents who wants to make TC look good and feel good for living, because they care!

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  69. When you sell your car to a second hand car dealer, do you care if he makes or loses money?
    When you sell your home to an individual buyer, do you worry if the market would go down and the buyer loses money?
    The answer is naturally "no".
    If so, then why say, "But if the market go south, developers will suffer too..."???
    Are you a developer or agent for the developer? Or have shares interests in the developers?
    If you approach en-bloc with this mindset of pro-developer, I'll go against it all the way. It means this sales will be done in BAD faith!

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  70. So what is your decision .Should we go for en bloc or no enbloc .If no en bloc why not do something to uplift the look of TC.maybe come out with a swimming pool

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  71. how do you sell a house or a car? Just quote an unreasonable amount? Or do you study the best price your car can fetch before you put it to market?

    You need to throw a bait that a developer will catch. The bait must be agreeable by at least 80% of the owners.

    This is my point.

    Enbloc puts a strain on the owners and if you are not serious about it, do not start the process. If you just want to throw a price to the market, do not start the process.

    If you have done some homeowrk on what you can fetch in the market and agreeable by 80% of the owners, then you have reason to go ahead.

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  72. En-bloc only if the sales committee has the interests of all owners at heart in their process.
    If the SC in determining the sale price is concern whether Developers will suffer; it means it will not be a fair deal for us.
    If en-bloc is driven and rushed by owners with more than one unit with a lot of loans to pay, then it will not be fair deal because sellers are desperate to clear loans.
    When you sell a car or a house, you put up a price above market and let buyers negotiate - no hurry; there will be buyers out there who will want it.
    It is the start point and attitude that determines the result.
    If your base point is low, will buyers give you more?
    Simple economics. If Developers need the land when their land bank runs low and demands increases, they'll bid. Right now, they are in a wait and see mode. Do you think you can get a good deal?
    So those people pushing for en-bloc in this wrong time are perhaps wanting to cash in whatever profits from their more than one units to clear loans before interests rates goes back up.

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  73. There are residents going around collecting signatures for en-bloc with a minimum sale price of $1.2mil. When asked how they arrived at this value, they couldn't answer, just that it is minimum.
    When asked why set such a low value for en-bloc, the developers will not bid and give more if you're minimum is 1.2mil. The answer is "the developer will not know this is the minimum value."
    When asked if she would sell if the bid came in at $1.2mil she said, "no, I also won't sell at $1.2mil"
    Then I asked, "In that case why set the minimum to $1.2mil, why not set it higher like 1.5mil?" to that she answered, "What if the developers bid lower than $1.5mil?"
    So I asked again, "what if the developers bid $1.2mil?" She answered, "then I won't sell."
    My answer to her "then what's the point of setting the minimum value to $1.2mil?"
    She thanked me and walk off.
    It reminded me of the previous en-bloc conversation. Exactly the SAME! Just the value different. Previously the minimum value to sell was ~$700K. I said "850K". Same questions asked, same answers given. Result? TC was almost en-bloc for $695K!
    I wouldn't let my home be sold by people who know close to nothing about en-bloc values and processes!
    For instance, how can they be so naive to say that the developers will not know the minimum is $1.2mil? THIS value has to be stated in the CSA!!!
    LOL!!!
    TC residents, do you want to put your home into the hands of people who thinks that developers will not know this minimum value you put in CSA?
    Do you want to sell your home through people who say, "minimum is $1.2mil but I won't sell if the bid came in at $1.2mil"? - Integrity problem, words and actions don't match.
    I am not against en-bloc if done by people who have integrity, know what they are doing and have the interests of residents at heart.

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  74. Her ignorance is, quite frankly, scary.

    The minimum price must be stated in the CSA. if she has signed the CSA then she has signed her home away for that price - if she thinks she can back out later then she is seriously delusional. The RP is an 'open' secret - of course the developers know what the RP is. The whole tender exercise is a scam, it's a set up from day one.

    Such uninformed and dishonest people going around the estate spouting rubbish deserve a tongue lashing from owners.

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  75. seems noone wants to do his homework, and looking at so many lost sheep here, let me give you my computation. i have considered all factors - dev profit, dc, construction, plot etc.

    If you think (as i do) the dev will enbloc and sell TC at 1000 psf (maximising all plot ratio), then each unit is today worth $1.735m.

    cheers,
    AofB

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  76. Hi everyone did any TC owners received a letter asking for the forming of a collective sales committee ?

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  77. No.

    How was this letter delivered?
    Can I have a copy?

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  78. Is this blog a blessing in disguise? Your judgement please!
    In the first place we should say thank you to this blog. Yes its official and been going around, price tag above 1.4 million (minimum) per unit. Hear that EOGM should be around the corner as they already preparing to write to MCST requesting for the process appointing SC. Meanwhile take this opportunity to enjoy as much as possible your present home.

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  79. My neighbour received SMS about this and showed it to me. The organizers claimed they have reached the numbers and they need signatures to have the EOGM.
    In earlier encounter, I was told by organizers that they were collecting signatures while trying to get the numbers. Hence, it looks like a scam.
    If they've got the numbers, it should mean that they have the signatures too and should be able call for EOGM.
    Asking residents for signatures, means they haven't got the numbers.
    It's just like the previous en-bloc, the SC said to some that they have the numbers (when the don't) and convinced some to sign so they won't lose out. It was after these folks signed did they reached beyond 80%.

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  80. How did they get the phone numbers?

    Anyway, if they call for an EOGM now - the earliest could only be in December - when a lot of people are away for their year end vacations. Either an example of bad planning or devious arrangement.

    Remember when profit is the sole motive - then bad things happen.

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  81. I believe they got the numbers while they went on their rounds and these are the ones who did not give their signatures but just their contact numbers; ie show interests, but no commitments.
    And also either there is a miscommunication, scam or a change of minimum sum.
    When they went around, the minimum price tag was $1.2mil per unit, the person above wrote in as $1.4mil per unit.

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  82. To all who still think that Developers can't make enough money causing you to sell en-bloc on cheap, see this latest en-bloc news (Cardiff Court to be up for collective sale):
    Sold for $25mil, the new development be sold at $63.36mil (see CNA)
    Simply means this, whatever price they buy, they'll design the new development to maximize their profit. You don't need to help them by selling it low to them!

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  83. I received a letter at the door step yesterday. There is a group of people working on it, DWG agent and St&Ch banker. I was told they aim to the reserved prize of 1.4M

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  84. DWG = DENNIS WEE GROUP?

    Once bitten, twice shy!!!

    Are they getting the same property agent as the previous SC?!

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  85. You got to be kidding me!
    This is really annoyingly stupid.
    If DWG is really Dennis Wee Group, we should ALL go and vote this SC out!
    Just look at the reserve price of 1.4M per unit and you know it is again another short sell for the various party to make a quick buck and get out. No proper market study! DON'T Fall into trap again.
    MUST VOTE THIS SC OUT!!! ELSE YOUR HOME IS GONE FOR A SONG!

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  86. Don't fall off your horses here... I believe the the comment only meant one of the pro-en bloc group memebers is an agent who happens to work for DWG. I would doubt very much a sale committee proper would even dare consider bringing back the DWG as the en bloc marketing agent!

    Unless of course, they are completely stupid.

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  87. DWG,ERA or any other's still a property's agent, they can't handle en-block sales. Look at all the latest en_block sales.
    What important is can they delivery. Not just talk and talk.

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  88. well guys if a concrete offer comes for 1.7 or evem higher i will take it. remember its the land that has the value. lets ask for the sky and if not achievable try next time. offer of 1 to 1 is good of the same size if not difference in size to be accorded back to the sp multiplied by the cost psf of enbloc price... so those who want to stay at same place can and still have some cash etc....

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