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"I am a BLOGGER NOT an expert. This is a BLOG not a 'go-to' website for official information. I represent no one's view save my own. I have neither legal nor financial training, nor do I have anything to do with the real estate industry. My understanding of the Collective Sale Process is from a layman's position only. My calculations, computations and tables are homespun and may contain errors. Please note that nothing in this blog constitutes any legal or financial advice to anyone reading it. You should refer to your lawyer, CSC or financial adviser for expert advice before making any decision. This disclaimer is applicable to every post and comment on the blog. Read at your own risk."
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There is one thing worse than an Enbloc ----- and that is an Enbloc done badly. Since the majority have the necessary mandate to sell, then they owe it to all SPs to make a success of it. Minority SPs can only watch and wait, if they sell then lets pray it's at a price we can move on with, if they don't sell, then we are happy to stay for a few more years.

PINE GROVE

It seems to me this estate must have cool-headed owners who have not so far panicked and dropped their RP.
This is their 3rd attempt.

'One private offer received for Pinegrove' - Today 10 May 2011

Pine Grove tender closed - CNA 19 April 2011 



Pine Grove's DC may deter property developers: analyst ChannelNewsAsia - 10 Mar 2011

 Pine Grove up for en bloc
Jones Lang LaSalle has put up what it calls “the largest en bloc site” for sale by tender.
Pine Grove has a site area of around 893,000 square feet and is zoned for “residential” use.
Jones Lang did not provide an indicative price for the site but Channel NewsAsia reported in November last year that the site has an estimated reserve price of S$1.7 billion.
The property consultancy firm said the site has a gross plot ratio of up to 2.1 and can be redeveloped into a residential development of up to 24-storeys with a gross floor area of near 1.88 million square feet.
That translate to some 1,500 apartment units with sizes of about 1,200 square feet.
Jones Lang said the surrounding area comprises of prime residential developments and renowned educational institutions.
It added that the land would appeal to consortia as it could be redeveloped into a landmark development or be divided into several smaller parcels for different or phase development.
Looking ahead, the marketing agent also said that despite the recent cooling measure, it is confident that the demand for en bloc sites would remain strong as the surge in foreign home buyers due to key recovering economies, could fuel the take up rates.
The tender will close at 3pm on April 19.
ChannelNewsAsia – 7 Mar 2011

Pine Grove up for tender with $1.7b price tag
893,219 sq ft site could yield up to 1,500 units
By FELDA CHAY 

PINE Grove is up for sale by public tender with an estimated reserve price of $1.7 billion.
Marketing agent Jones Lang LaSalle (JLL) said the Ulu Pandan HUDC estate can be redeveloped up to a height of 24-storeys and gross floor area of 1.88 million sq ft - subject to relevant authorities' approval, and payment of differential premium.
Based on the estimated reserve price and the $460 million differential premium, developers would have to fork out $1,150 per square foot per plot ratio for the land, which has been zoned for residential use.
JLL's national director and head of investments Stella Hoh said that a maximum of five offers is expected for the site, which is likely to draw consortium bids because of its large size.
'Many developers are facing depleting land banks and would be looking at replenishing their land banks. Despite the recent cooling measures, we are confident that the demand for en-bloc sites would remain strong as the surge in foreign home buyers owing to the recovery of some key economies, further fuel the take up rates,' said Ms Hoh.
One property veteran said however that with the higher land supply from government land sales, the site may see few bids.
'The price is very high, not just in terms of the absolute quantum but also because of the rate it translates into,' said the analyst.
Still, the area may draw interest from large local and foreign developers because of its growth potential, said Cushman & Wakefield's senior manager of Asia-Pacific research Ong Kah Seng.
'Although homebuying sentiment has moderated after the cooling measures, choice sites in well-positioned locations or those in places with rapid on-going rejuvenation plans are favoured by developers.
'Selected developers (may) thus feel it is worth participating in choice leasehold sites like this to accumulate their land inventory, where hopefully homebuying sentiments will also improve, with genuine owner occupation demand growing firmer than the present encouraging performance,' said Mr Ong.
According to JLL, the 893,219 sq ft site with a gross plot ratio of up to 2.1 could yield up to 1,500 apartment units with an average size of 1,200 sq ft each.
The area is a short drive to Holland Village and Orchard Road, and is close to schools like Henry Park Primary School, National University of Singapore and Singapore Institute of Management.
The Pine Grove tender comes months after its residents, incentivised by the $1.7 billion price tag, gave the necessary approval to embark on the collective sale after two failed attempts to do so in 2009, and during the 2007 property boom.
With a reserve price of $1.7 billion, Pine Grove's sale could beat the $1.34 billion record set by Farrer Court in 2007. According to JLL, Pine Grove is the largest en-bloc site to be put up for sale in Singapore.
The tender will close at 3pm on April 19, 2011
 Business Times - 8 Mar 2011

Well, it didn't deter CapitalLand from forking out a DC of $450 million for Farrer Court...

24 comments:

  1. Agree, Pine Grove people are cool.
    TC must be like that too.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Pine Grove is a classic example to demonstrate that developers will not pay whatever the owners ask. Today's article in the ST also mentioned several recent enblocs that was not successful.

    If you wish TC to be successful this round, you have to price it right. Right pricing does not mean low price. Rather, it should be one that balances owners and developers needs.

    Good luck

    ReplyDelete
  3. Sorry, I disagree about balancing the 'developers needs.' Who are you to help balance the developer's needs? You must be bigger than developers to help them balance their needs.
    The developers need land. PERIOD.
    If the get the land at low price, they'll earn more.
    If they get the land at higher price, they'll make buyers of new development pay more.
    If the market cools, they hold launch until the right time they get what they want.
    Developers know how to balance their needs, you don't need to balance it for them.
    Look at the recent GLS,the prices developers are willing to bid are much more than the minimum.
    The demand is there, the land in Singapore is limited. Developers need land to develop, they are not call developers for nothing.
    Meaning this: no more land to build on, no more developers.
    Pine Grove is a classic example of steady people, the type that says, "You want the land you pay" in Hokkien "Ai Lai, Mai Swah"
    TC must stay focus on what we want, not on helping developers. Don't know why there are still people thinking about the developers' needs. Perhaps this was post by some agent of the developers! LOL

    ReplyDelete
  4. The writer of the post mentioned a balance between developer and owners needs. I think you only read developers needs and not owners needs.

    ReplyDelete
  5. The owners of Pine Grove are generally a savvy and enlightened lot. Even if the present enbloc sale efforts does not go thru, there is always another opportunity down the line. In land-scared Singapore, as long as our economy grows consistently around 3 to 5% every year, prime areas will command a high premium, and over time, the new peak in the property cycle will exceed all previous peaks. The property developers understand this!

    ReplyDelete
  6. I agree with the comment that prime area will always command a high premium. Is TC considered in a prime area? Furthermore, do you think Prine Grove owners should revise up their reserve price in their next enbloc should they fail again this time?

    ReplyDelete
  7. So long as you achieve a price that affords you a NEW unit in the SAME area then it matters not what area you are talking about. No TC owner would expect to be able to sell their unit en bloc and buy a replacement unit in D'Leedon - but a replacement unit in district 18, YES.

    And not a resale unit, please, as those units' prices will shoot through the roof once 560 TC owners come a-knocking in their estates, demand will certainly outstrip supply.

    ReplyDelete
  8. why would resale unit shoot through the roof and now NEW units?

    ReplyDelete
  9. This is from experience.

    Most owners will not be able to go house hunting until they are assured of the sale proceeds being deposited into their accounts. So, if 300-400 TC owners go house hunting during the 6 months reprieve after the sale is approved then that will flood resale units in the area with interested buyers. A bidding war will erupt.

    Now, the sale price would have been announced in the newspapers, so shrewd sellers would naturally increase their asking price because they know TC owners have the money and must find a replacement soon. The demand for resale units will outstrip the supply and resale prices in the immediate area will rise accordingly. Even the HDB maisonettes in blk 124 shot up to around our reserve price in round 1.

    So enblocing your home just to move to another old estate/HDB will all the sale proceeds eaten up in the transfer is simply too stupid for words. The majority of owners are NOT investors but are single home owners and it boggles the mind why people go to all this hassle only to find others soaking up their 'windfall'.

    We very nearly shot ourselves in the foot last time in this matter. People clamored to stop the sale because they realised too late how the world really works.

    New owners will probably fall into the same trap if they are inexperienced.

    This is why we need a 1-4-1 EXCHANGE as a second option - it takes the uncertainty away and it preserves the equity in your home.

    Only the price of new units should be used as a benchmark, because you know what they will be by the psf ppr/breakeven cost of the new estate which is published well in advance.

    ALSO, a new estate will have EXCESS units, and buyers will not be trying to outbid each other to secure a unit. The developer would have priced the units to suit the market - and not just to catch TC owners.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I disagree, existing units ususally cost less that brand NEW ones. Just compare the psf between NEW units and those that are 5-10 years old. Further more, if you purchasse NEW units, you will need to source for temporary accomodation as you will have to wait for the TOP.

    Please consider carefully.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Of course existing units usually cost less than new units; but if you want to enbloc then set your RP on the COST of a new unit.

    I will say that again: SET THE RP ON THE COST OF A NEW UNIT IN THE NEW ESTATE.

    I did not say BUY new unit!

    Whether you buy one and wait 3 years is an individual matter. You can take the sale proceeds (equivelent to the price of a new unit) and do whatever you like with it: downgrade, side-grade,upgrade, move in with your mother or emigrate.

    But don't tell me my proceeds are enough only for an old unit elsewhere and force me to downgrade !

    An old unit 5-10yrs:
    - probably another 99yrs,
    - in a high density estate
    - smaller land area
    - smaller unit area
    - lower share value
    - no en bloc potential if plot ratio is maxed out

    A collective sale that only allows you to downgrade or side-grade is USELESS.

    ReplyDelete
  12. "Ishometome" ( sounds like Japanese to me) is spot on. My strategy is simple: to capitalise on the enbloc phenomenon over the next 10 years, say at least 2 times or more => roll your enbloc $$ many times until you reach a critical mass for you to buy a unit that you desire vis-a-vis the locality, size and $ value of the property. Say TC owners get $1.7m; use the $ to look for other enbloc opportunities elsewhere. I had gone thru enbloc 1 time, and have rolled the $ together with bank loans to get another 2 properties ( one owner occupied and one rented out ) that are due for enbloc. With a bit of luck, once the other 2 properties go enbloc, I should be able to retire, settle down in a final property and have enough $ to have a decent quality of life in my twilight years. The irony of life in Singapore is that unless you are born rich, married rich, strike lottery or is a successful business man, as a salaried (with normal salary) person, you would be struggling with making ends meet through your working life. So 15 years ago, I have embarked on the enbloc strategy: strike 1 already 10 years , 1 pending closing of tender, and the other about to take place this year or next. Patience and perserveance is required; with a bit of luck, I will reach there soon. Remember Rome is not built in a day, and planning over a longer-time horizon is required. I am also glad to see that my son, aged 29, is already following this strategy, and with his much longer time frame, his chance of making it is much higher. As I have said before, in land-scare Singapore as long as there is moderate growth over the years, property prices will reach new peaks! The best is yet to be.

    ReplyDelete
  13. erm... looking at the condition of TC, any 5-10 year old condo will be an upgrade -> you will have longer tenure, better facilities, finishings, and look out for a unit with about the same size... and wallah!!. u have an upgrade... do not constraint yourself...

    you will suffocate and get irritated.

    ReplyDelete
  14. You play like an old record.

    Longer tenure:.... am I Methusaleh?

    Better facilities: ....but double/triple the monthly maintenance fee. Noisy, problematic and unused.

    Finishings:.... move into a 10 yr apartment and first thing you do is rip out the old and put in new. Better to renovate your TC unit. My TC bathrooms are newer, nicer and bigger than any 5 yr old apartment.

    Upgrade? You have lost the equity in your home. Your share value worth is diminished now that you reside in a densly populated estate on a tiny piece of land. The GFA has been maxed out.

    Finishings and Facilities are fluff.

    Size matters.

    Know the difference between price and value.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Value?
    value of TC is less than 600psf/unit...
    check out he value of condo units around your vacinity.

    I rest my case.

    ReplyDelete
  16. No, our current market price is less than $600psf/unit. But this is not our value.

    Our value is is measured differently.

    Land value:
    > $500 psf ppr based on recent land sales which translates into >$1000 psf/unit

    Intangible values:
    These are unquantifiable. Money isn't everything, you know.

    ReplyDelete
  17. the value of the land cannot be unlocked if the enbloc is unsuccessful. So this is only perceived... not guaranteed. the current value is still $500+/psf.

    Looking at the exchanges here, do you really think you can unlock the value?

    ReplyDelete
  18. The value is intangible, no need to unlock.
    Just like many things in life is valuable which you can't put a dollar value to it.
    Not everything has a price to it and everybody values things differently.
    Try taking the smelly soft-toy bear or baby pillow away from a little child. It's junk to you, but life to the kid.
    The value of TC is the land and what is around it. Today, when you look for a new apartment or home to live in, what do you look for? Market, food centre, transportation, MRT, Expressways, shopping, schools etc. - Well it's all here around TC.
    That's the value, no need to unlock. It's all there and that's what Developers will look for to built on and to sell thereafter.

    ReplyDelete
  19. When one think of intangible value, it relates to things like sentimental, emotional value...

    Whether the enbloc is successful depends on the ratio of owners preferring sentimental over tangible value.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anonymous10 May, 2011

    The problem with Pine Grove is that owners have cried wolf too many times. Developers no longer think Pine Grove owners are serious, and didn't even bother to bid. So for TC, if we want to do it, we do it well, otherwise, defer the enbloc.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Anonymous11 May, 2011

    Right. It does not mean after forming SC, TC die die must sell.
    If the various MA cannot provide acceptable sale strategy and price, no need to force the sale.
    I am happy here.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I think it is the wrong time for Pine Grove. It has the potential to be developed into a high end condo along the lines of Farrar Court/D'Leedon, Gillman/The Interlace. Only problem is, those higher range condos are not selling very fast. D'Leedon has been on the market since Nov 2010 and sales haven't even reached half the transacted price yet. it is a long way from breaking even. It is the lower end mass market condos that are doing very well. Tc is well positioned in that respect. Any future new development here is likely to sell like hotcakes, in my humble opinion.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Anonymous12 May, 2011

    This only proves that you need to set the price right. Developers will not pay the any price you set.

    Many here believe that they will.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Anonymous25 May, 2011

    The right price is different with different people.

    The developers wants it cheap.
    Some owners wants between $1.5mil to $2mil and some want 1-for-1 exchange.
    Question is to set the price right for who?
    For Developers? - Never! They are too rich with the recent property jumps
    If the developers don't pay, they don't get.

    Set the right price for owners this way:
    Send out a survey for ALL TC owners, at what price they want to sell and publish the survey results. Please don't just look for some owners. Because if the survey does not represent more than 80%, you'll have a failed en-bloc coming.

    ReplyDelete