Disclaimer






"I am a BLOGGER NOT an expert. This is a BLOG not a 'go-to' website for official information. I represent no one's view save my own. I have neither legal nor financial training, nor do I have anything to do with the real estate industry. My understanding of the Collective Sale Process is from a layman's position only. My calculations, computations and tables are homespun and may contain errors. Please note that nothing in this blog constitutes any legal or financial advice to anyone reading it. You should refer to your lawyer, CSC or financial adviser for expert advice before making any decision. This disclaimer is applicable to every post and comment on the blog. Read at your own risk."
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There is one thing worse than an Enbloc ----- and that is an Enbloc done badly. Since the majority have the necessary mandate to sell, then they owe it to all SPs to make a success of it. Minority SPs can only watch and wait, if they sell then lets pray it's at a price we can move on with, if they don't sell, then we are happy to stay for a few more years.

ShunfuVille , perfunctory tenders and co-existence of double RPs

The Court of Appeal decision is out. The collective sale of the ex-HUDC estate ShunfuVille will proceed.

The decision can be found here 

This decision will have ramifications for all collective sales in progress. Our SC/MA will be dancing in the aisles with this decision. The Minority Objector focused on points that were plainly unwinnable, but I am going to focus on one issue that was not even raised (just something I latched on to in the reading).. RPs and how two can exist at the same time .

We have always been told that signing the CSA was a 'big step', that we would be legally binding ourselves hand & foot to a legal document until the very end. Sure, there was a brief 5 day 'cooling off' window in which we could change our minds, but after that, we were well and truly hooked. Voluntarily, I might add.

We all believed there could only be ONE RP, and to make sure we were all signing on the same page, we were given the added safety measure of having the signing done in the presence of a lawyer (rather than some smooth-talking marketing agent ambushing old people in their living rooms).




It is common practice that if the RP were raised in the course of the collective sale attempt, then those who had signed for the lower RP would rise with the tide and be party to the new, higher RP along with the new signatories.

Along comes ShunfuVille and the notion of ONE RP goes out the window with the crystallisation of Supplemental Agreements and their vastly different RPs that operate in a kind of legal-limbo.

I am not legally trained, but I do believe a person cannot legally sign for two different RPs on 2 different documents and have them both operational at the same time. One has to give way to the other - the same way you cannot legally be married to 2 different people at the same time.

So, how do you keep one RP alive and legally kicking whilst collecting fresh signatures for a lower RP?

Simple - throw out the idea that your signature is legal the moment you put ink to paper - and instead make a provision in the CSA that says it is only binding when 80% is reached for that particular  RP.  

So, there are 2 kinds of RPS - one that locks you in at the start and one that locks you in at the  80%.

This rule-bending allows for two RPs to co-exist side-by-side until the lower one has the muscle to take over the reins of the 80%.

The ShunfuVille CSA 'had a clause about a Supplemental Joint Agreement taking effect only if the consent of subsidiary proprietors representing at least 80% of the total share value and total strata area of the Property was obtained.' (COA 24) '

Check out out Tampines Court CSA.... Clause 1.4(c)

So, this is common practice, so you say, all Collectives Sales have this provision for a supplementary agreement in their CSA.

True, but now we have a case study - a successful template - and one which will be applied to many collective sales from now on. TC included.


One benefit (or drawback) is that the original 80% mandate remains in force for 12 months from date of first signature and it can be used to hold as many tenders that fit in the time frame. Shunfu used it for 2 tenders at the highest RP. The 2nd open tender was used as a bridge to the 10 weeks following an open tender provided for in the LTSA to find a private buyer  The buyer had already been found, they just needed the legal framework and an extension of time to garner the necessary signatures to get the deal done.

All very clever, I must say, but there's a deviousness underneath it all that really irks me.

At the end of the day, 80% knowingly signed that supplemental joint agreement, they were fresh signatures, and I for one, would not have attempted to take this case to High Court, never mind the COA. This template is an  'enbloc winner' from now on.

53 comments:

  1. Anonymous10 May, 2017

    Y worry so much? Is so obvious En bloc will not go though becos of ppl who create fear out of confusion , blocking one in a life time opportunity to improve life for themselves n family !!

    ReplyDelete
  2. Anonymous10 May, 2017

    That's why downward revision of RP is done by supplement agreements according to what is spelled out and allowed for in the CSA. Nothing wrong with it. You are free to not sign the supplement agreement.

    Supplement agreements are very common in contract law.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Anonymous10 May, 2017

    With regards to the fear of being blindsided by a lower RP, I think you can rest easy....people can write whatever contract/supplements they want, end of the day, the courts will see whether they have exercise due care and acted in the interest of the SPs by getting the max price possible for TC. that is fiduciary duty. If that is not satisfied, whatever is listed in the contract is just garbage. I think people who stoke fear about being blindsided with a lower RP than the one signed is no different from pro enbloc folks who keep singing "the infrastructures are crumbling" tune to get more people on board the enbloc train. For me, its a very simple thought process...nothing complicated...it does not make sense to give up a lottery ticket for an immediate draw while hoping for another lottery ticket to a lucky draw which nobody knows when it will take place or whether it will even take place at all.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Anonymous10 May, 2017

    The probability of success of TC enbloc is already very slim. We don't even have an interested party and we're talking about what we do in one of the 1000 scenarios that it can fail.

    What's the point of talking about Shunfu and learning all the intricate details? Do Shunfu SPs who are now holding $1.8m know all these? And they succeeded!

    Don't 66% of SPs feel rotten looking at other successful enblocs while ours is stuck and most people here are hoping to keep it stuck?

    ReplyDelete
  5. Anonymous10 May, 2017

    1.3m I definitely won't sign. 1.5m maybe but I didn't sign. The current RP is attractive enough for me to sign. Of course I can be expecting more but contentment is indeed bliss. I am not going to stress myself hoping for more money at the expense of my health and age. If this enbloc go thru at current RP, I will definitely take the solid hot cash and run rather than hoping for more money in future which may or may not materialized.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Anonymous11 May, 2017

    gameover la, becos some ppl thought they sitting in prime central land lol n when somemore is surrounded closely by hdb lol

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous11 May, 2017

      Below is Ads of the agent described TC after failed enbloc 1 :


      Tampines Court is a PRIVATE APARTMENT in a prime and superb site located in the heart of Tampines Town and is strategically located in the North-Eastern part of Singapore along the Tampines Street 11 residential area. The 23 year old former HUDC development which was privatised in the year 2002 comprises of 560 units -- a mixture of 128 low-rise 4 storey walk up apartments in 8 blocks, and 432 Maisonettes in 6 blocks of 12 storey apartment blocks. The immediate vicinity comprises mainly public housing developments and it is well-served by many facilities including a market, hawker centre, Century Square and Tampines Mall Shopping Complexes, the eastern Regional Financial center, Community Club and a sports complex. IKEA, Courts and Giant supermarket are also located within the 2 KM radius. It is also in close to primary as well as secondary schools nearby and well served by transportation links along Tampines Avenue 2, Simei Avenue the Pan Island Expressway and TPE. The site is situated in between 2 MRT Stations, the Tampines MRT Station and the Simei MRT Station each a short walking distance away. Major Expressways like the East Coast Parkway leading to Ayer Rajah Expressway, and the TPE/SLE also renders it easy access to the Airport and to the north towards Woodlands.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous11 May, 2017

      Now with Tampines Hub & new Circle Lines. Price of TC will goes up if enbloc 3 failed. So no worries.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous11 May, 2017

      TC will surely cross the $million mark soon & continue to climb upwards especially after upgrading, maybe we even share cost to built facilities. Have faith in TC ! Ignore the lousy durian sellers scare tactics ! He is desperate. Lol

      Delete
    4. Anonymous11 May, 2017

      You mean 66% of SPs are desperate? Do you really believe owners are willing to come up with money to build additional facilities? I think not...

      Delete
    5. Anonymous12 May, 2017

      I agree with the durian seller that not everyone can come up with the money to built additional facilities but I also agree that he has lousy salesmenship. If you want to come to this blog to sell yr durian (garner signatures), you are suppose to win them over with logical arguments and not to further antoganise them. At this stage, every signature counts. Why win the argument and lose the sales ? Indeed maybe you should chage trade.

      Delete
  7. Anonymous11 May, 2017

    Indeed, it's going to be game over. The latest notice for this sunday's signing is worst than the last. It reflects on the SC/MA boh chap attitude as if they are sure to get 80% signature. If they don't bother, I also don't bother to sign as I hate agent who take my property for granted.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous11 May, 2017

      Do they need to roll red carpet and invite Ding Tai Feng dinner and Durians for you before you say they are not bochap? If they do that, anti-enbloc guys will say it is inducement. This also cannot, that also cannot. Reminds me of teenage girls, want boys to do this and that and play hard to get.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous11 May, 2017

      They refused to reply to queries from SPs, they refused to spent small money from return of big money. Should they have better communication & rapport with SPs they could have gotten more signatures by now. Rather, they prefer to adopt an indifferent & couldn't be bothered attitude.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous11 May, 2017

      The lousy cheapskate durian seller is back because his own facebook no business. All his smart potential customers are here mah. Beware of his new sales gimmick. Rolling out red carpet & blanjah u ding tai feng. You think the smart customers here cannot afford meh? Later buy from u the durians, opened up all worms. Try harder or change trade lah ! Lol.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous11 May, 2017

      What sales gimmick are you referring to? What kind of response do you expect with your durian speak?

      Delete
    5. Anonymous12 May, 2017

      Why don't the anti-SC/MA boys stop using EYE and MOUTH POWER. You're doing all these theoretical calculations and reviewing legal precedents, why don't you put it to good use and be part of SC, instead of criticizing other SPs who have stood up and formed an SC?

      If you don't want to sacrifice your weekends and evenings, what makes you think the SC team should sacrifice their weekends to do things that will benefit you?

      Delete
  8. Anonymous11 May, 2017

    I don't think there are two RPs so as to speak so much as there, in practice, being two separate agreements. The Shunfu sale went through because there was 80% on the supplemental, albeit that the signatories were different from the first 80% (which ensured that the CSA was not out of time for the purposes of the LTSA).


    Separately, who maintains the FB page? It is plainly wrong in the May 10 post that the RP is "increased by $200,000" because RP is not based on a per unit price. Also, is it correct that the RP was "increased by $112 million" in the May 2 post?" That's quite an increase!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 2 RPs: one active and one-in-waiting. At least 60% of the signatories must be the same so they would have had their signatures appended to different documents at the same time.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous11 May, 2017

      There are no different documents. There is one CSA and there supplement agreements to that same CSA. It's very simple actually.

      Also, $112 million divided by 560 units = additional $200k per unit.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous12 May, 2017

      There's no solace for SPs when SC office bearer is unclear of the distinction between RP and individual payout. Some even wrong about estate age. Such lackadaisical attitude a recipe for more controversy, brouhaha and most importantly beyond them to achieve optimum price.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous12 May, 2017

      Will friends of SC please inform them to make corrections to their misleading notice and reply to queries posted on SC Enbloc FB.

      Delete
  9. Anonymous12 May, 2017

    The fact of the matter is :

    1) The official TC facebook is the best platform to give feedback & sharing. Instead it has now become a 'ghosttown' when literally no one want to contribute anymore, the reason best known to the SC/MA.

    2) This is a blog when those SPs who object to enbloc give their contributions, many of which are logical and reasonable.

    3) I am sure the owner of this blog welcomes both pro, anti-enbloc SPs as well as MA/SC/lawyer to contribute & share ideas. This is a healthy way of communication.

    4) Instead, when logical & valid questions are posed, no one from the SC/MA bother to reply either her or their official facebook. You cannot blame SPs to think you have a bor chap attitude. Worst still, someone from pro-enbloc instead of helping to answer doubts and queries start to attack the anti-enbloc SPs.

    At the end of the day, though its up to the SPs to decide to sign or not but the sad thing is that's literally no communication at all in this round. If my memory is correct, in round one there is 2 dialogue sessions at the CC when even the lawyer was present to answer doubts and queries.

    Remember, even if you can get 80% there is no guarantee the enbloc will go through when some SPs are angry, feel short-changed or unreasonably treated or victimised. So do what is right & be fair to all the stakeholders of TC. Afterall we are still neighbours irrespective of the end result of this round of enbloc.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Anonymous12 May, 2017

    SC's recent letter to non resident SP used outdated RP to make very attractive comparisons with Tampines GLS, Shunfu, Raintree. What was a realistically attractive proposal then is now rediculously unbelievable now with this aggrandised RP (SC argument, not mine). They also say SP asset will be worth $1500 million twice. Typo error? Nitpicking? NO. It's a reflection of their "bo chap" attitude. SC's reasons for wrong payout quoted in letter is disingenuous.
    This team is all muddled up, don't back up each other, poor attention to detail, fraught with mistakes and contradictions. I have no faith in them.


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous13 May, 2017

      i am fine with the current attitude. if you dont like them, i support you to join and revamp the SC team. dont sit on your hands and throw darts at others and call names. If youre to lazy to volunteer and make your case, then pls extend your laziness to keeping quiet when others work too.

      Delete
  11. It does not mean that EnBloc, u can ask for the world. There is a market clearance price..as a guide maybe try to get at around a 35-40% premium from the last highest selling price. If there's a buyer good, otherwise then agree a next best alternative market clearance price and by now u should have a good feel. However, if those who are not keen to sell, whatever u offer them they will say NO. The minority have a right but if 80% say YES...then it's not their call...Wish u the best..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous13 May, 2017

      TC initial RP was 30-40% above resale prices and ballooned to current 85% premium. But we're selling land not apartments. Had SC done a proper RLV, we could have kicked off with a more stable RP which faithfully reflect the value of our land.
      If ever TC achieve sale status, your next best alternative market clearance price scenario is likely. SC must confirm the modality of RP reduction so SPs can make an informed decision before committing.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous13 May, 2017

      Right now 14% call the shots. Are you sure you can win them over with so little time left? Even if you can reached 80%, there is no guarantee that the enbloc will go thru if minority has good grounds to object which means they are the one calling the shots. So don't be too confident.

      Delete
  12. Anonymous12 May, 2017

    The SC also wants the en bloc to go on successfully, how can they bo chap? aren't they going against themselves? I don't understand your logic. I have been to their meetings and have raised questions, they answered politely. If there is bad blood between both of you, settle it amicably. Let's all be gracious to one another.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous13 May, 2017

      be careful, things can easily get nasty as big stakes here. At this point, 66% want it to proceed, and to them it means a new beginning that they desperately want to have. To the others, to them it means staying with the past that they desperately want to keep. forced amicability is as good as it gets. just dont start fights with durian husks.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous13 May, 2017

      Brazen impropriety have been exposed.
      Gross incompetence, ignorance cursory approach result in many blunders.
      Withheld material info from all. Not open and transparent.
      Resort to unminuted discussion. Due Enbloc process circumvented.
      Bad judgement, unlawful and impetuosity in expelling their most knowledgeable, conscientious member. Crass.
      Huge swings in RP, a reflection of flawed advice or unsound strategy. Current RP surpass that recommended by expelled member. Unconscionable.
      Important, pertinent questions remain unanswered. Past impropriety still unaddressed. These demand official, overt explanation to all. As of now, Mums the word. 'Bo chap' an apt characterisation.
      Compare and contrast official Enbloc FB with this Blog.
      It's NOT personal.

      Delete
  13. Passport problems - Melbourne trip postponed until next weekend. Fire away with your comments. Both sides of the coin welcome

    ReplyDelete
  14. Anonymous12 May, 2017

    I am sure the SC/MA have a lot to say about anti-enblockers, but they are just keeping quiet because they know it is pointless to argue.

    As for these questions being asked, SC/MA and the lawyers will surely answer them IF someone asks them face to face. But if noone is asking them face to face, then it can't be that important, or maybe its important to only 1 person. Even if they answer the question on FB, what's the point it only goes out to 60 followers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous13 May, 2017

      SC has a duty to address all pertinent queries on Enbloc. Their reading of the Law is of interest to ALL SPs. SC/Eldan official statement should be broadcast to ALL.
      Do they feel vulnerable by past transgression and indiscretions? Is their position indefensible? If legal advice is to remain silent, then it's a bad day for Tampines Court Enbloc.

      Delete
  15. Anonymous13 May, 2017

    Cannot imagine that is still someone who think that our TC only worth 1.3m based on his silly nonsense of pricing our unit "35-40% premium from the last highest selling price" If his idea is acceptable why did he only managed to get 46% and raised his RP twice? Obvioulsy majority SPs are smarter than him and did not buy his nonsense.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous13 May, 2017

      i would like to put a challenge to you. put your unit out to the market now at $1.3m and see how many people even view your unit. Most will be laughing and calling you a nut case. If you dont like what you hear well thats the fact. we can only succeed today if we come together. else go on and be wishful....wait for whatever time and all the excuses that one day, it will be worth $2m. before all the teeth fall off hopefully. just stating facts.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous13 May, 2017

      You sound so desperate until you cannot think straight. What makes you think I want to put my unit for sale in the open market though I don't mind to consider enbloc sale if price is right (certainly not your silly ridiculous figure of 1.3M which majority SPs rejected). You are a bigger nut to another person one. You don't even understand that there is a difference between individual unit sales value and enbloc sales value.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous13 May, 2017

      Hello ! You don't give up, do you ? If you want to compare, please compare apple-to-apple. I agree $1.3M is overpriced if you try to sell your unit in the open market. But bear in mind we are selling land and $1.3M is definitely under priced ! Please don't waste your time trying to convince people that $1.3M is attractive enough for them to sign.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous13 May, 2017

      Not a fair comparison. Land intensification and value enhancement beyond the scope of private buyer. Fairer to compare with other SC.
      Rio Casa attained 80% in 3 weeks. Raintree, Shunfu better payout. Eunosville, potentially more ambitious returns. Tampines Court SC still mired in controversy. Many of SPs questions ignored, gross impropriety remain unexplained.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous13 May, 2017

      Amazing , is land surrounded closely by cheaper Hdb priceless ?!!

      Delete
    6. Anonymous13 May, 2017

      Why still talking about 1.3m RP?? It's history already, move on...

      Delete
    7. Anonymous13 May, 2017

      Exactly he cannot even be sure if he can get the 14% SPs to sign for the latest RP and still want to talk abt 1.3m RP. Now who is the nut ?

      Delete
  16. Anonymous13 May, 2017

    3rd time lucky yet 34% still thinking of 4th time lucky amidst weak economy, less inspirating leaders than 1st generation lol

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous13 May, 2017

      i guess you need to be "inspired" before you can sign. to me, a durian seller who can succeed is worth more than Winston Churchill.

      Delete
  17. Anonymous13 May, 2017

    Look at stock market best barometer for future growth , US stock market DOW around 50% higher than last peak in 2007, yet singapore stock still below all time high in 2007 with companies delisting one by one .

    Incomprehensible that Ppl still betting for fourth time lucky when can probably change to new appartment with strong upside if property turn up or less downside compared to ageing estate !!

    ReplyDelete
  18. Anonymous13 May, 2017

    Tomorrow is a big day for all of us. If we get another 10% then it is pretty much past finish line. If we get 5-10% then it needs ER to keep it alive. If we get 1-5% then this blog closes shop, we go home and we can come back 2 yrs later if we are still alive.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous14 May, 2017

    The useless durian seller talk cock again. He said "Amazing , is land surrounded closely by cheaper Hdb priceless ?!! "

    Tell me, how many condos in singapore not surrounded by hdb flats, even better locations like lavender, redhill, bt merah, etc....., all have hdb flats nearby. What wrong with that ? It is because there are hdbs nearby, there will be ammenities like market, hawker centre, 24 hrs ntuc, schools, clinics, mrt etc which developers love to boast about during launch. If you don't like to be surrounded by hdb, why do you bought TC in the first place. Aren’t you are contradicting yourself ? If you hate hdbs so much, please go and buy orchard road or sentosa properties.

    This is what I meant when a lousy salesman talk bad about his own product. Like that how to win customers over (garnering signatiures from SPs). It is exactly because you love to belittle TC which are pissing off the SPs !!

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anonymous14 May, 2017

    How many "four years" do we have as we age? We don't even know whether we still alive tmr !

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous14 May, 2017

      You are right. Nobody knows whether he or she will be alive tomorrow. But that is irrelevant. Enbloc or no enbloc one still must die if yr time is up. No guarantee you can enjoy the enbloc money also. So no need to try so hard.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous14 May, 2017

      When the time is up, we will go alone and take nothing with us. But at least I want to leave peacefully and not without regrets and that I did what I could to enhance the future of my kids, and not be embroiled in petty disagreements with SC/MA.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous14 May, 2017

      Why must be YOU & YOUR DREAM alone ? It's because u think it's petty & disregard the feelings of other SPs who may have their reasons to disagree or object to what they deemed as not right or unfair to them cause the failure of some enbloc. Why should everyone listen to you when you don't bother vice versa? Yr attitude is too self centred. Good luck to yr dream !

      Delete
  21. Anonymous14 May, 2017

    So called professional valuation are in end still guessing game with nobody able to forcast future , most real is whether your n kids life can be improved.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Anonymous28 May, 2017

    En bloc money can be a better gift than education to children as money give them cushion to chase their passion with basic need covered fast !!

    Entrepreneur are successful not because they are well educated but because they have license to take risk with cushion from their rich family environment.

    ***************

    Mark Zuckerberg's Commencement address at Harvard

    May 25, 2017

    .. Look, I know a lot of entrepreneurs, and I don’t know a single person who gave up on starting a business because they might not make enough money. But I know lots of people who haven’t pursued dreams because they didn’t have a cushion to fall back on if they failed.

    We all know we don’t succeed just by having a good idea or working hard. We succeed by being lucky too. If I had to support my family growing up instead of having time to code, if I didn’t know I’d be fine if Facebook didn’t work out, I wouldn’t be standing here today. If we’re honest, we all know how much luck we’ve had...

    Source:
    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/05/mark-zuckerbergs-speech-as-written-for-harvards-class-of-2017/

    ReplyDelete